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Thread: mysterious rattle

  1. #41
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    Several ways to approach getting the front bank sniffer tubes off.

    1. If you are not going to re-install the sniffer tubes you can simply cut the tube where they connect to the header and then work on removing the nut once the headers are out. Major disadvantage is the tubes are destroyed.

    2. The sampling end of the tubes connect to the side of the engine with a bracket and one bolt. All four of the tubes are brazed onto the bracket. You can unbolt the bracket and attempt to bend the tubes around the engine, although there is good chance you will break/crack the tubes. Alternately, you can try to move the header over toward the driver's side and that may give you more clearance to slide the four header tubes around the engine. If the works, just leave the tubes on the header and remove engine.

    3. The last and most obvious is to try to loosen the nuts that hold the tubes to the header. Its going to be harder with the header disconnected because it will flop around. Maybe re-attach it with two nuts to secure it. Getting to those nuts is best accomplished from under the car. The nuts are probably rusted so Kroil or PB Blaster is needed ahead of time.


    Removing the front header.

    The front header will be disconnected from the exhaust pipe and then the header will come out before the engine is removed. I don't think the front header sniffer tubes will interfere with the header removal because they are so short.

    Once you get the nuts off the sniffer tubes and clean up the threads, you can just plug the hole. Verell, at unobtaniumsupply.com sell nice brass plugs.

    Ceramic Coating

    My headers had all of the covering removed when I ceramic coated them. I had them coated black.

  2. #42
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    Jul 2014
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    Thanks for the tips Fireman.

    I am still struggling to get the exhaust disconnected, but I am making some progress. Once I get the rear header out and the front header disconnected and laying on the frame I think everything else should go smoothly. I painted all the nuts and bolts with 50% acetone/ 50% atf; hopefully that will help with some of the more stubborn ones.

    Birdman's tutorial calls for removing the carbs; I noticed in your picture (page 3) that your carbs are still on. Is it possible to leave them on? The carbs are not difficult to service at a later time if they start to act up, so if I can keep them on I may want to do just that.

    I am still trying to decide just how far I want to take the engine apart. The kid in me wants to take the heads off and find an excuse to rebuild it, maybe add a couple horsies; but except for the cam belt drive gear bearings the car has really been running great. What I really want is for the car to run as it has been.

    These are the results of compression and leak-down tests on a cold engine. (I wasn't comfortable running the engine to warm it up with the drive gear wobbling as bad as it was). Sorry I couldn't properly format the chart.
    COMPRESSION LEAK DOWN
    CYL DRY WET @ 75 PSI % LOSS SOURCE

    1....165....200.....72.....4 %.....INTAKE
    2....180....190.....74.....1 %.....INTAKE
    3....165....190.....74.....1 %.....INTAKE
    4....165....180.....73.....3 %.....INTAKE
    5....185....200.....74.....1 %.....could not detect
    6....165....190.....69..... 8 %.....could not detect
    7....170....190.....74......1 %.....could not detect
    8....170....195.....73.5...2 %.....could not detect

    Opinions & comments please

    My hearing isn't the best, but I was surprised that I couldn't hear anything on cylinder 6. I suspect exhaust because that would be the most difficult for me to hear. I was right over the carbs while doing the leak down, and I had funnel at the dip stick, so I could hear those (nothing from the dip stick). I'll check valve clearances before I fret too much over cyl 6, but I am interested in everyone's comments/ opinions.

    Also what do you all think about having oil analyzed?

    I am thinking of getting a pallet to put the lump on to separate the transmission from the engine. a friend has a cherry picker, and an engine mount for me to borrow when the time comes.

    I've never worked on an engine on a stand before. Wouldn't it make things easier if I loosened the drive gear ring nuts and pulled the dampener while the engine is still in the car?

    any and all comments and suggestions will be very much appreciated.

  3. #43
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    Jul 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jwtlag View Post
    Thanks for the tips Fireman.

    I am still struggling to get the exhaust disconnected, but I am making some progress. Once I get the rear header out and the front header disconnected and laying on the frame I think everything else should go smoothly.
    ...I think everything else should go smoothly what was I thinking? go smoothly.

    I am really struggling with one nut on the front bank exhaust (right over the starter), and a couple on the rear bank that are blocked by a rail I think was connected to the emissions pump. The pump froze long ago and the mechanic just plugged it up (the rail is also broken (see picture) I'm thinking of just cutting the rail as indicated in the picture to give me access to those 2 nuts. Is there any reason not to just cut it out?
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  4. #44
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    Finally got the front header disconnected, and laying on the frame last weekend. It kind of jammed itself , so I cannot move it around to disconnect the front sniffer tubes. I think I can work it loose if I loosen the motor mounts. In the meantime, I got the muffler/ cats out (damn, that was heavy; I wasn't really expecting that). Today I got the rear rail out, without cutting it off, and removed the rear header (it did NOT just fall out). Getting the last few nuts holding the headers on took some new tools - flex sockets (Universal Joint + 13 mm socket would not fit), and extra long wrenches - each worth 10 x what I paid.

    My next real challenge will be the oil cooler. After that I should be able to get everything else disconnected without too much drama - except for the surprises Murphy has in store for me, of course. I hope to pull the engine within the next couple weeks..... Then will come trying to get the heads off - not looking forward to that at all.
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  5. #45
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    Noce work. You are certainly making good progress

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jwtlag View Post
    My next real challenge will be the oil cooler. After that I should be able to get everything else disconnected without too much drama - except for the surprises Murphy has in store for me, of course.
    The oil cooler should take you 20 minutes, tops. Disconnect the lines at the block and filter housing. Then remove the cooler and lines as an assembly. [/QUOTE]


    Quote Originally Posted by Jwtlag View Post
    Then will come trying to get the heads off - not looking forward to that at all.
    Why? Your compression data shows worn rings (but still way under the serviceable limit). Recheck cylinder 6 before doing anything. The heads don't need to come off for the timing check repair. I'd just pull the cams, to be safe...
    Sarasota Italian Garage, LLC
    "The Fluent in Ferrari Guys" celebrating 37 years of service excellence
    **An independent facility with no affiliation with Ferrari SpA**
    Sarasota, FL
    www.fluentinferrari.com

  7. #47
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    Thanks guys!
    Thanks for the tip on the oil cooler Radioman; it didn't occur to me to remove the cooler and lines as a unit.
    I'm still debating how much I want to (read: afford to) put into my car this year. I'd like to go for a full rebuild, but unless it proves to be necessary that will have to wait. I was thinking that servicing the heads and replacing the exhaust valves with stainless steel would make for a good second choice (???). I never really worried about the sodium valves until I read so many (too many) threads the past couple weeks looking for tips on what it takes to remove the heads (scary). Of course I'd like to just change the cam drive bearings, put it back together and enjoy the summer; but now that I am thinking about the exhaust valves, I would probably kick myself on my first drive for not taking care of them while the engine was out. On the other hand... removing the heads may prove to be more than I can handle if they are corroded on.... I still have a couple weeks to study and decide. In the meantime I'll redo leak-down test now that I could hear if it's the exhaust paying special attention to #6. disconnect, disconnect, note engine mounts orientation, disconnect....

    Today was mostly a family day, but I did get the heat shield off the rear header. I wasn't sure if I should remove the collector shield so I didn't touch it today. How much of the exhaust system is to be ceramic coated, and which parts do I just leave alone?
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  8. #48
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    When I got my car the exhaust headers only had the heat shield on the collector. I removed it. It’s very tough metal. Looks much better without the coverings.

    If you choose to only fix the cam bearings and not do the valves but later decide to pull the heads, it’s much easier to pull the engine a second time because now you will have had some real experience!

  9. #49
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    Pull it once! Getting the heads off is really nowhere near as hard as all the drama would lead you to believe....Frankly, to do this job safely without any risk of bending the valves, the valve covers and cams are coming out anyhow.
    Sarasota Italian Garage, LLC
    "The Fluent in Ferrari Guys" celebrating 37 years of service excellence
    **An independent facility with no affiliation with Ferrari SpA**
    Sarasota, FL
    www.fluentinferrari.com

  10. #50
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    Jul 2014
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    Thanks guys.
    Unless I chicken out, I'll go for the heads first time around. Read you loud and clear on removing the cams Radioman; that will be first order of business once the engine is pulled. Thanks for the encouragement Fireman. I would imagine that just getting rid of all that bulky heat shield material and those f*&^%ng rails that blocked access to several of the exhaust header nuts will make things much easier putting things back together, and pulling the engine again in the future (maybe for the bottom end after another 100 k miles.)

    I'm hoping to recruit my engine-pulling crew at a 4th bar-B-Q tomorrow; wish me luck
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